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	<title>The Blog of Rudy Amid &#187; hybrid</title>
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	<description>My Curiosity, Observation, and Opinion</description>
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		<title>Hybrid Woe &#8211; IMA Battery</title>
		<link>http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-woe-ima-battery/</link>
		<comments>http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-woe-ima-battery/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rudyamid</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Driving]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[cars]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[honda]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[hybrid]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[warranty]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-woe-ima-battery/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[UPDATE June 29 2011]: There seem to be a lot of interest on IMA battery replacement. I just called my local dealer, and he said, for sure Honda does NOT offer free replacement of the IMA battery. He was not aware of any service bulletin that offers it. He also said the California State EPA [...]<p><a href="http://www.amid.com/werd"><img border=0 src="http://www.amid.com/elements/amidcom_logo.jpg" align="center"></a>This article was posted on <a href="http://www.amid.com/werd">Rudy Amid's Blog</a>: <br/><br/><a href="http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-woe-ima-battery/">Hybrid Woe &#8211; IMA Battery</a></p>

<h3>Related posts:</h3><ol>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/everyones-turning-hybrid-i-really-think-so/' rel='bookmark' title='Everyone&#8217;s Turning Hybrid &#8211; I Really Think So'>Everyone&#8217;s Turning Hybrid &#8211; I Really Think So</a></li>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-car-reality/' rel='bookmark' title='Hybrid Car Reality'>Hybrid Car Reality</a></li>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/catalytic-converter-do-i-need-it/' rel='bookmark' title='Catalytic Converter &#8211; Do I Need It?'>Catalytic Converter &#8211; Do I Need It?</a></li>
</ol>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a title="Honda Civic Hybrid Cutaway Diagram (IMA Battery part of IPU - Located at the back seat)" rel="lightbox[hch]" href="http://www.amid.com/images/hybrid-civic-cutaway.jpg"><img src="http://www.amid.com/images/hybrid-civic-cutaway-s.jpg" border="0" alt="Honda Civic Hybrid Cutaway" hspace="8" vspace="3" width="330" height="149" align="right" /></a><em><strong>[UPDATE June 29 2011]:</strong> There seem to be a lot of interest on IMA battery replacement. I just called my local dealer, and he said, for sure Honda does NOT offer free replacement of the IMA battery. He was not aware of any service bulletin that offers it. He also said the California State EPA law may extend the warranty for the IMA battery, but not the 2003 HCH.  So, unfortunately, for those who still have the 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, you&#8217;ll need to shell out $4000 (plus labor) to get a new IMA battery.  Alternatively, sell it and get a regular non-Hybrid car because IMA batteries are just costly to replace</em>.</p>
<p>Every car owner worry about spending money to repair his/her car due to regular wear and tear.  An equipment with so many moving parts will require a lot of maintenance work.  It&#8217;s a necessary evil.  With an electric-gasoline hybrid cars, there is an added problem: the main battery.  When it&#8217;s damaged, it&#8217;s going to be expensive to replace.  This is what hybrid owners have been dreading, including myself.</p>
<p>Honda does not have an official word on why a <a title="Honda Hybrid IMA Explained" href="http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/civic-hybrid-technical-info">Civic Hybrid&#8217;s IMA</a> (Integrated Motor Assist)  battery might fail.  But <a title="Honda Insight IMA Battery Issue" href="http://jot.amid.com/post/41360969/ima-battery-issues-discovered-on-honda-insight-cars">a technical bulletin to service dealers</a> suggested a similar problem with Honda&#8217;s first hybrid cars, the Insight, which used the same IMA technology.  The letter said modules controlling the battery charging mechanism, allowed overcharging.  However, repeated overcharging could cause overheating and reduce the life of the battery.  Combine that with the hot weather in places like California or Arizona, the battery would die even faster.</p>
<p>The letter might explain my situation.  For the past few weeks, there have been record high temperatures in Southern California.  I noticed my 2003 Civic Hybrid car&#8217;s IMA light came on and off, indicating a possible problem with the main engine battery.</p>
<p>Last week, I took the car to a local Honda dealer down the street and had them check it out.  They told me that it was possibly due to a false reading in the ECM (Electronic Control Module) device. This should also fix the issue I had with the Check Engine light reporting a <a title="Issue with catalytic converter" href="http://www.amid.com/werd/catalytic-converter-do-i-need-it/">catalytic converter</a> failure.  They summarily reset both indicators and returned the car to me.  This Monday morning, the light came back on!  It looks like the ECM software update doesn&#8217;t fix anything.</p>
<p>In California, there is a <a title="Warranty Extensions on 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid in California" href="http://www.amid.com/docs/sulev_2003civichybrid_extwarranty.pdf">warranty extension</a> for the IMA battery to <strong>10</strong> years/150k miles.  However, this only applies to Civic Hybrids with <a title="SULEV on Wikipedia" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SULEV">SULEV</a> (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicles) specification.  For some odd reason, the State only gave my car a ULEV.  So I&#8217;m out of luck.</p>
<p>Now, I may not have a choice but to replace my IMA battery.  I called a few other dealers and they quoted me about $3000 to get a new one!   I can buy a lot of gas with that money! Or a down payment for a new car!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to give up on my car just yet.  In the past few weeks, I watched the battery charge and MPG indicators.  I noticed I was down to 41 MPG on a full tank, or roughly 500 miles per 12 gallons. Even with the IMA battery poor condition,  I&#8217;m still getting a much better mileage than all economy/compact/sub-compact cars out there.   So it got me thinking:  Do I really need to replace the main battery?  My answer, at this point, is no.  The car is still drive-able and still saves a lot of fuel.</p>
<p>Some people suggested, after 5 years, the car&#8217;s life is at the end anyway, so it might better off for me to buy a new car.  It may be true in a cold climate cities when the car goes through adverse weather conditions and salted roads. In Southern California, the weather is moderate and mostly dry.  A well maintained car can last more than 10 years in this part of the country.  My last Civic was 8 years old when I had to trade it in for a larger car.  Similarly, I plan on using this Civic Hybrid, if it lets me, to go beyond 10 years, or at least until 2011 when my car pool lane <a title="california clean air sticker" href="http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/decal.htm">HOV sticker</a> expires.  There&#8217;s really no motivation for me to get rid of this car right now.</p>
<p>With the IMA battery still operational in a somewhat limited capacity, the car still getting a quite decent mileage and still in good condition, my hybrid car woe is not too bad. In the meantime, I think I&#8217;ll write to American Honda to petition a warranty exception for my car&#8217;s battery.  I&#8217;m hoping Honda has the sense to take care of me, one of their loyal customer. I&#8217;ll update this blog when (if) I get a word from them.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amid.com/werd"><img border=0 src="http://www.amid.com/elements/amidcom_logo.jpg" align="center"></a>This article was posted on <a href="http://www.amid.com/werd">Rudy Amid's Blog</a>: <br/><br/><a href="http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-woe-ima-battery/">Hybrid Woe &#8211; IMA Battery</a></p>
<p><h3>Related posts:</h3><ol>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/everyones-turning-hybrid-i-really-think-so/' rel='bookmark' title='Everyone&#8217;s Turning Hybrid &#8211; I Really Think So'>Everyone&#8217;s Turning Hybrid &#8211; I Really Think So</a></li>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-car-reality/' rel='bookmark' title='Hybrid Car Reality'>Hybrid Car Reality</a></li>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/catalytic-converter-do-i-need-it/' rel='bookmark' title='Catalytic Converter &#8211; Do I Need It?'>Catalytic Converter &#8211; Do I Need It?</a></li>
</ol></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Everyone&#8217;s Turning Hybrid &#8211; I Really Think So</title>
		<link>http://www.amid.com/werd/everyones-turning-hybrid-i-really-think-so/</link>
		<comments>http://www.amid.com/werd/everyones-turning-hybrid-i-really-think-so/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 00:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rudyamid</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Driving]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[cars]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[cost]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[hindsight]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[hybrid]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amid.com/werd/everyones-turning-hybrid-i-really-think-so/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A co-worker once told me that I was crazy to buy a Hybrid car back in 2002. He listed a bunch of bad reasons and we used to argue about them regularly. Below are the list of his gripes and my rebuttals (with a little hindsight thrown in): Gas price is still cheap (below $2 [...]<p><a href="http://www.amid.com/werd"><img border=0 src="http://www.amid.com/elements/amidcom_logo.jpg" align="center"></a>This article was posted on <a href="http://www.amid.com/werd">Rudy Amid's Blog</a>: <br/><br/><a href="http://www.amid.com/werd/everyones-turning-hybrid-i-really-think-so/">Everyone&#8217;s Turning Hybrid &#8211; I Really Think So</a></p>

<h3>Related posts:</h3><ol>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-woe-ima-battery/' rel='bookmark' title='Hybrid Woe &#8211; IMA Battery'>Hybrid Woe &#8211; IMA Battery</a></li>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-car-reality/' rel='bookmark' title='Hybrid Car Reality'>Hybrid Car Reality</a></li>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/no-oil-change-yet/' rel='bookmark' title='No Oil Change Yet'>No Oil Change Yet</a></li>
</ol>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://radix.warped.com/pics/hybrid_badge-civic.jpg" alt="Hybrid Civic Badge" align="right" border="0" height="90" hspace="8" vspace="3" width="183" />A co-worker once told me that I was crazy to buy a Hybrid car back in 2002.   He listed a bunch of bad reasons and we used to argue about them regularly.  Below are the list of his gripes and my rebuttals (with a little hindsight thrown in):</p>
<ol>
<li><em><strong>Gas price is still cheap (below $2 back then) to justify paying $3000 extra on the sticker price for Hybrid cars.<br />
</strong></em>The introduction of the technology did make it a little bit more expensive to buy than regular gasoline cars.  But the idea was to save gas on the long run, and also protect myself from rising gas prices.  Sure enough, now that gas prices are close to $4, non-hybrid owners are starting to feel the pinch.  There was also a $2500 federal tax break.  It wasn&#8217;t a lot, but it helped get me more tax refund.</li>
<li><em><strong>Get hybrid cars when gas prices are high.</strong><br />
</em>Sounds like a good plan, but hybrid cars are difficult to find these days!  Demand is up, sales are brisk, and supply is low.  They also don&#8217;t sell them below sticker price either, usually with $2000+ additional markup in some States.  You snooze, you lose!</li>
<li><em><strong>The engine battery is too expensive to replace.</strong><br />
</em>Replacement for the battery is not done often or even soon enough.  When it is required, it will be replaced under warranty, so it&#8217;s free.  My car battery, after 6 years of usage and 125,000 miles, is still holding its charge very well.  In some States, like California, the battery&#8217;s <a href="http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/ca-extended-warranty-t637.html" title="Battery Warranty Extension">warranty is extended</a> to 10 years or 150,000 miles.  Also, in some cases, people can haggle with the dealership to reduce the cost of the battery replacement.</li>
<li><em><strong>Insurance is higher for hybrid cars.</strong><br />
</em>This is not true.  I have used two insurance agents, MetLife and Farmer&#8217;s, and both do not charge me extra.  They treat it like any other car in the same class, in my case as a Honda Civic.</li>
<li><em><strong>Maintenance is more expensive.</strong><br />
</em>My Civic Hybrid&#8217;s owner&#8217;s manual says my maintenance cycle is every 10,000 miles.  So far I&#8217;ve been doing mostly oil changes, regular scheduled maintenance, tires change, and accessory (regular small) battery change.  That&#8217;s all!  I don&#8217;t even have to change my brakes yet after 120,000 miles because of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_brake" title="Regenerative Braking in Wikipedia">regenerative braking</a> system.  When I counted them up, it turned out even cheaper than my previous non-hybrid Civic maintenance costs!</li>
<li><strong><em>Hybrid cars are very slow! </em></strong><br />
This is sort of true.  It has a slow acceleration, 0-60 in about 10 seconds.  However, in my case, I drive on the highway a lot and when it gets going I can cruise at 80 MPH without any problem.   I don&#8217;t really want to drive that fast because it&#8217;s a waste of gas.  Driving fast is also a gas guzzler for regular non-hybrid cars too, so it&#8217;s a good fuel saving tip for anyone.</li>
<li><em><strong>Hybrid cars are ugly.</strong><br />
</em>That was true with the early versions of <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/paul/245849198/" title="Old Prius on flickr">Toyota Prius</a> and the <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bpende/119942885/" title="Honda Insight on flickr">Honda Insight</a>. But with <a href="http://automobiles.honda.com/civic/" title="Honda Civic">Honda Civic Hybrid</a> cars, they look exactly like the other Civics.  The <a href="http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/index.html" title="New Prius">new Prius design</a> is OK and it&#8217;s definitely miles better than the old version.</li>
</ol>
<p>The demand for hybrid cars was very low back then because most people had the same misconceptions that I listed above.  So my decision to buy my 2003 Civic Hybrid was a good choice, considering my needs at the time (long commute and additional car).  I got the car below sticker price too.  I did get suckered in to buy an &#8220;extended warranty&#8221;, which I used only for free oil changes.  The Civic was made in Japan and it was solidly built.  It gave me no mechanical issues after all these years!</p>
<p>So now, my co-worker is ditching his Toyota Sienna mini-van (19 MPG)  and opting to get a Prius (50 MPG).  How times have changed!</p>
<p>Photo credit: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/h2roma/2434461810/" title="h2roma">h2roma</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.amid.com/werd"><img border=0 src="http://www.amid.com/elements/amidcom_logo.jpg" align="center"></a>This article was posted on <a href="http://www.amid.com/werd">Rudy Amid's Blog</a>: <br/><br/><a href="http://www.amid.com/werd/everyones-turning-hybrid-i-really-think-so/">Everyone&#8217;s Turning Hybrid &#8211; I Really Think So</a></p>
<p><h3>Related posts:</h3><ol>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-woe-ima-battery/' rel='bookmark' title='Hybrid Woe &#8211; IMA Battery'>Hybrid Woe &#8211; IMA Battery</a></li>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/hybrid-car-reality/' rel='bookmark' title='Hybrid Car Reality'>Hybrid Car Reality</a></li>
<li><a href='http://www.amid.com/werd/no-oil-change-yet/' rel='bookmark' title='No Oil Change Yet'>No Oil Change Yet</a></li>
</ol></p>]]></content:encoded>
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